Re: Work with OpenDaylight for SC15 event?


Harvey Newman <newman@...>
 

Much appreciated Phil and All.

As you can see we have some very specific questions,
and an issue of documentation as well.

Thanks for following this through with Iosif

 (and the other team members cited).

Best regards
Harvey


On 10/30/2015 4:22 PM, Phil Robb wrote:
Hello Kai & Jensen:

I sent this to Richard yesterday not realizing that the leadership of the project has changed this past week.

The folks at CalTech woking on the Large Hadron Collider are using OpenDaylight to distribute the data they collect to a network of participating universities and they're interested in using ALTO as part of that effort.

However, they are having some issues in getting everything stood up.  Could you guys take a look at the email below and respond to Losif Legrand and team with any insights you may have?

Thanks in advance for your help with this.

Phil.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Phil Robb <probb@...> wrote:
Hi Losif:

Thanks for your detailed email regarding ALTO.  It sounds like you've got more of these regarding other ODL projects but let's take them one at a time.

I've cc-ed the lead of the docs team (Colin Dixon), a Tech-Writer we have on contract to help us with our documentation (Denise [Walters] Boehm) and the Project Lead for the ALTO project (Richard Yang).  Richard should be able to help us with getting you sorted out regarding the ALTO implementation in OpenDaylight-Lithium and Denise and Colin can take what we learn here to improve the documentation in the future.

Further comments inline below...

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 3:38 AM, Iosif Legrand <Iosif.Legrand@...> wrote:
Hello Phil,


Thank you very much for your email and the links to the documentation.

Unfortunately there are significant  discrepancy between  documentation and
and the distribution (Lithium)  we are trying to use .

Actually, the problem you are running into is not due to stale documentation from a previous release.  Lithium is the first release that contained ALTO.... not that it makes the situation any better.
 

I would like to show you the example for ALTO:

From "ALTO:Lithium User Guide" (https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/ALTO:Lithium_User_Guide)
these are the instructions to install ALTO :

To enable ALTO, the features must be installed first.

 feature:install odl-alto-provider
 feature:install odl-alto-manager
 feature:install odl-alto-northbound
 feature:install odl-alto-hosttracker

From what I can see Losif you are correct.  The page you reference, and the documentation in the Lithium User Guide (page 23) is incorrect.  I believe the correct documentation for the installation of ALTO is in the Lithium Getting Started Guide (page 5) with the command "feature:install odl-alto-all".  Richard Yang, please confirm this.

Denise, as you can see, our problem will often be not that the correct documentation isn't available, but that it is that it is lost in a sea of incorrect information.
 
From these 4 modules the first two do not work :

opendaylight-user@root>feature:install odl-alto-provider
Error executing command: No feature matching odl-alto-provider/0.0.0
opendaylight-user@root>feature:install odl-alto-manager
Error executing command: No feature matching odl-alto-manager/0.0.0
opendaylight-user@root>feature:install odl-alto-northbound
opendaylight-user@root>feature:install odl-alto-hosttracker

If I list all the modules in karaf , these are the available modules for alto :

odl-alto-release                             
odl-alto-core                                
odl-alto-basic                               
odl-alto-extension                           
odl-alto-standard-types                      
odl-alto-resourcepool                        
odl-alto-northbound                          
odl-alto-standard-service-model             
odl-alto-standard-northbound-route          
odl-alto-standard-resource-translator        
odl-alto-ird                                
odl-alto-manual-maps                      
odl-alto-hosttracker                         
odl-alto-nonstandard-types                  
odl-alto-nonstandard-service-model           
odl-alto-nonstandard-northbound-route        
odl-messaging4transport-api                  
odl-messaging4transport 

There  are 18 ALTO modules .

This will not be uncommon for modules within OpenDaylight's Karaf distribution Losif.  Many projects create various karaf bundles for their own purposes in a finer granularity than is significant to the end user.  We have "user facing karaf features" that aggregate multiple smaller bundles into a collection that is exposed and documented to the end user.  I have a feeling, in the beginning, the ALTO team thought that the four user facing features made sense, but at some point along the way changed to just using "alto-all" to fully install the full ALTO functionality.  Richard, feel free to correct me or add additional insights.
 

The documentation describes only the  ALTO -manager but this
modules does not exist anymore in the distribution.
All these new modules  are totally undocumented.

After installing these new modules I tried to only
example on the documentation page using the apidoc
explorer and it does not seem to work.
I also tried using curl on cli.

I would have expected that if you loaded all the ALTO features, that was equivalent to installing "alto-all".  Richard, can you or someone from the ALTO project help Losif and his team get ALTO up and running in their environment?
 

Changing the name of the modules and adding many
new undocumented modules for the same
distribution ( Lithium) makes it really difficult to use it .



In my option, it will be very  useful  for the users to have a set
of simple / realistic examples in how to use these modules.

Basic/simple examples would clearly help.  Thanks for the suggstion Losif.  Denise, lets see if we can get these as we do per-project interviews in the coming weeks.

Best,

Phil.
 


Thanks a lot for all your help.


Best Regards,
Iosif






On 10/29/2015 02:22 AM, Phil Robb wrote:
Hello Everyone:

My apologies for missing this thread entirely until now.  It's totally my bad. 

I'd like to start with a level set so that I know where everyone is in getting up to speed.

First off, yes trying to search for documentation via google is particularly painful for OpenDaylight.  The Hydrogen release of the documentation was implemented on the wiki but for most of Helium and all of Lithium the user facing documentation has been compiled into PDF documents on the OpenDaylight.org site.  So the best curated documentation we have is in our pdf based documents on the OpenDaylight.org site and that isn't crawled by google (but the very stale wiki pages are).  Are you all familiar with the documents produced and available for download here?: https://www.opendaylight.org/downloads

Second, did anyone get the chance to attend the ODL Summit and take the day-long tutorial given by Ed Warnicke on "A Grand Tour Of Coding For OpenDaylight"?  For anyone that did not, it will be helpful to go through that material.  We have a wiki page that includes the 16 labs done in the tutorial along with the slides presented, the USB image that was distributed and used throughout the tutorial and youtube video recordings that comprise the day-long event.  At the Summit they only got through 13 of the 16 tutorials so that is all you'll see on the recording.  I'm working with Ed to have him record the last 3 labs for completeness but that is not done yet.  If you watch this and have questions, please reach out to Ed on irc (he's a bit hit-or-miss via email).  Ed's irc handle is "edwarnicke"

Next, the best resource for each project is their individual project page on the wiki.  Each project is required to have one and keep it up to date.  Also on it is a project "Fact Box" that contains the contact information for the project lead and all committers as well as their mailing list, irc channel, meeting information etc.  In addition each page often contains pointers to their most recent wiki page documentation and any other relevant resources.  The full list is here: https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Project_list and the specific projects in question are here:

Also note, that if you are ever concerned that something might be out of date, just click on the "view history" tab at the top of the wiki page.  That will show you when the most recent changes were made giving you some level of confidence on the "freshness" of the material.

If you've not yet looked through the above material please do so and let me know if it helps.  The next step will be to reach out to the Project leads for each of the above either on the mailing lists or irc channels with your specific questions.  What the community lacks in documentation (and we know we lack in documentation) we make up for in timely responses to your questions... unless your request gets lost in my inbox... but I've already covered that above in this email... and again, sorry about that.

Best,

Phil.


On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 9:42 PM, Iosif Legrand <Iosif.Legrand@...> wrote:
Hello Melissa,


Thank you very much for your email.

I would  like to learn more about using Yang tools
in the ODL framework to setup and control  flows .
I saw many presentations describing the power and
flexibility for this approach , but is  hard to find
documentation and  simple/realistic examples in using it .

I am also interested to learn using ALTO, LACP, Opflex, Intend .

A significant part of the on-line documentation
(using web search engines) or examples  is for Hydrogen or Helium
releases and   is not updated for the Lithium version.
In the doc wiki pages there are many broken links or links to
old version for the documentation.

I think that good documentation is very important for such a complex
project.  I also believe that having  simple  examples in using
ODL framework for realistic problems / configuration will help a
lot the user community .


Best Regards,
ioji




On 9/23/2015 7:06 PM, Melissa Logan wrote:
Hi Losif,

Thank you for that feedback. The good news is that we'll soon have a
resource who will be updating key documentation, but it may take some time
before you see the results. Which projects specifically do you need help
with? We may be able to find community members who can help.

Melissa

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Iosif Legrand <Iosif.Legrand@...>
wrote:

Hello ,

I am trying to learn it and use it in our environment.
There are several new interesting projects / modules in Lithium
but is no  appropriate documentation and examples in how to use them.
This is most frustrating part .

Regards,
Iosif



On 09/23/2015 04:57 PM, Harvey Newman wrote:

Iosif is studying Lithium and can comment.
Harvey


On 9/23/2015 7:10 AM, Melissa Logan wrote:

OK great! We will be in touch with the materials for input.

With regard to Lithium, how is that progressing for you?
On Sep 23, 2015 6:50 AM, "Harvey Newman" <newman@...> wrote:

  Dear Melissa,

I am open to this and would be glad to follow this up with you.

Regards
Harvey



On 9/22/2015 8:50 PM, Melissa Logan wrote:

Hi Harvey, Julian and Dorian!

I hope you're all doing well. Have you found any dark matter yet, or
hints of supersymmetry?

With regard to SC15, we wondered if you would you have the ability to
debut or show the video we created with you folks? We thought that might be
a perfect venue to debut it (i.e. if you have a TV in your booth, or
perhaps during a paper presentation if that makes sense?) while we would
publish it on our blog, social media, newsletter etc. What do you think?

We could even perhaps schedule interviews with a couple HPC reporters
(e.g. HPCwire, ZDNet) who might be interested in hearing about your
experiences, as well as ODL's perspective. Would you be open to that? If so
we can get the video finalized by early October and start reaching out to
reporters around mid to late October to pitch.

Melissa


On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Jill Lovato <
<jlovato@...>jlovato@...> wrote:

Hi Harvey,

That's great news!  Please keep us updated on your submission and paper,
and feel free to pass along both the abstract you submitted as well as the
paper for reference.

We'd like to release the CERN video in tandem with SC15. Your presence
and presentation at the event and discussion of OpenDaylight use would be a
good compliment to our promotional efforts surrounding the video. We may
also want to set up some press briefings at that time. Let us know if you
have any concerns with that approach, otherwise we'll move forward.

As for assistance with the release and the packages, we'd love to help.
Let us know what you need and we can put you in touch with our technical
director, Phil Robb, and perhaps some other members of the OpenDaylight
community, to get that moving.

Thanks,
Jill

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 11:54 PM, Harvey Newman <newman@...>
wrote:

Hi Jill and Melissa,

Indeed we are preparing for SC15 and part of our plan is to talk
about our experiences with OpenDaylight. Julian and Dorian
just submitted an abstract to the INDIS workshop on our
SC14 experiences and more recent progress, and a paper is
(very shortly) due.

We will also mention some of the same progress in the ESnet
R&D workshop planned at about the same time.

Best regards
Harvey

PS Your contact with us also is opportune in that we would like
to present a strong case for ODL Lithium. For that to happen
we would need some assistance with the release as it continues
to evolve, and for some of the packages to settle down by October
or earlier. We understand that other users have had similar recent
experience.


On 8/12/2015 3:05 AM, Jill Lovato wrote:

Hi Julian and Harvey,

Hope you are doing well! I work with Melissa Logan on PR for
OpenDaylight, and am reaching out regarding the Supercomputing 2015
conference in Austin November 15-20: <http://sc15.supercomputing.org/>
http://sc15.supercomputing.org/

We don't currently have plans to participate in the event, but are
thinking it might be really compelling to the community to talk about how
Caltech is using OpenDaylight. We're going to get more details on the event
and various presentation options, but wanted to reach out now to see if
this is something you'd be interested in; we'd love to work with you on
something!

Looking forward to your thoughts on this, and we'll be in touch again
when we have more details.

Thank you,
Jill


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